Friday, October 26, 2007

alcoholics anonymous & the new world order

http://mindcontrolusa.net/

i knew it....

Aleister Crowley, illuminati, Satanist, and 33 degree level Free Mason, circa 1875-1947, founded his religion, “Thelema,” at the turn of the century. Thelema being the practiced religion of its members, Crowley also created at the turn of the century “ Fraternitatis Argenteum Astrum” which translates from Greek to English, “Fraternal Order of the Silver Star”. One of the symbols used by Crowley to identify his fraternal order is the Masonic triangle within a circle with the acronyms A.A. inscribed below it. This symbol is now known globally as the symbol of Alcoholics Anonymous.Crowley published a book in 1922 entitled Diary of a Drug Fiend. In this book Crowley presents a satanic program of recovery from drug addiction. Throughout Diary of a Drug fiend, its publication predating Alcoholics Anonymous by 17 years, there are many themes and phrases, both similar and identical that are also common in “The Big Book” of Alcoholics Anonymous. These themes include “abandoning free will”, “abandoning ones self”, “it’s beyond human power”, “god is beyond conception”, “Do what thou wilt”, “Do with me as thou wilt” etc. The identical ideology of these doctrines is this: free will is useless therefore hand your will over to someone or something else. Anyone who has read both Alcoholics Anonymous and Diary of a Drug Fiend can easily spot the commonality in the wording, writing style and doctrine of the two books. It is also easy to see similarity in the writing style of the short lymric style poem included in the first chapter of the Big Book, “Bill’s Story”, of Alcoholics Anonymous and the many short lymric style poems written by Crowley. See an example of the common writing style in the following poems.
Big Book; 1st Chapter; “Bills Story”:Here lies a Hampshire Grenadier Who caught his death Drinking cold small Beer.A good soldier is ne’er forgotWhether he dieth by musket Or by pot.”
Crowley’s “Epitaph” to Pearl Brooksmith written August 1933:Here lies a Pearl of womenWho lived in open sin.One end collected semen,The other guzzled gin.
The first chapter of Alcoholics Anonymous, “Bills Story”, gives insight into the darker psychological elements of the character Bill W. Note the following excerpts taken from “Bills Story”: “Judging from what I had seen in Europe and since, the power of God in human affairs was negligible, the Brotherhood of Man a grim jest. If there was a Devil, he seemed the Boss Universal, and he certainly had me.”Later in the chapter the author writes: “Simple, but not easy; a price had to be paid. It meant destruction of self-centeredness. I must turn in all things to the Father of Light who presides over us all.”“Father of Light” as used in the above paragraph is also referred to in the bible as “Lucifer”. Now see the identical ideology in the following excerpt from Diary of a Drug Fiend describing the spiritual program of the character Basil, who is identified in the book as “Satan himself”: “He wants one to be oneself, and the price of that is to abandon the false ideas that one has of oneself.”In the last page of “Bills Story” the author writes:“An alcoholic in his cups is an unlovely creature. Our struggles with them are variously strenuous, comic, and tragic. One poor chap committed suicide in my home. He could not, or would not, see our way of life.“There is, however a vast amount of fun about it all. I suppose some would be shocked at our seeming worldliness and levity. But just underneath there is deadly earnestness. Faith has to work twenty-four hours a day in and through us, or we perish.”I find it hard to imagine anyone, short of Crowley himself, finding even the minutest amount of “fun” or “levity” in the tragedy of some one committing suicide in his/her home.In Diary of a Drug Fiend, Crowley misleads the reader to believe that the means of controlling ones drug habit is thru developing ones “true will”. In reality, Crowley was well known to be an elitist, racist, fascist and he is also well known for his belief that some are “born kings” while “the slaves shall serve”. An example of Crowley’s true ideals can be seen in one of his 1941 diary entries in which Crowley observed that, in a Thelemic society, “the problem is not how to boss the herd, which is automatic, or to thwart the unworthy, who are ejected into impotence; but how to prevent emulation developing into warfare.”The rituals which Crowley conducted with his followers involved, drug use, animal sacrifice, consuming human feces, homosexual sex, drinking blood, consuming menses, physical abuse and psychological torture. Crowley even boasted of ritually sacrificing children. Crowley’s goal was to psychologically break people in order to control them.In turn, Treatment Centers utilizing the Twelve Step method of Alcoholics Anonymous aim to bring about a psychological break in the patient. This psychological break is referred to in Alcoholics Anonymous as a “complete psychological change”. The techniques used by treatment centers to cause a psychological break involve cutting off the patient from his familiar social setting (restricting contact with family and friends) and restricting access to reading material, radio and television. The patient lives in a situation of inferiority and is regularly reproached by his counselor and “group” members for using defense mechanisms (humor, self-pity, anger, etc.). The patient is bombarded with repetitive slogans and phrases. The idea is to create sufficient stress to cause a psychological collapse at which point the patient becomes susceptible to influence. The desired goal is for the patient to abandon free will and to accept the program. The most commonly known term for this form of this process of psychological restructuring is brainwashing.
Examples of this satanic, free masonic agenda can also be seen in music, art and pop culture. Heavy Metal music artist, and well-known drug and alcohol abuser, Ozzy Osbourne, has an album titled Diary of a Madman which is an obvious spin on the title of Crowley’s book, Diary of a Drug Fiend. Another one of Ozzy’s albums entitled Blizzard of Oz is an obvious spin on the popular family film The Wizard of Oz. In turn, the film The Wizard of Oz is full of occult and Masonic symbolism. The term “Oz”, as used in the film title The Wizard of Oz, is taken from Crowley’s book, Liber Oz (“Oz” is Crowley’s transcription of the Hebrew word for goat.)Another, so called, family film Willy Wonka and the Chocolate factory is a thinly veiled allegorical metaphor of Alcoholics Anonymous. You can easily see this in the story line. Wonka’s spy “Slugworth” is a play on the name “William D, Silkworth” credited as the author of the chapter entitled, “Doctor’s Opinion” of Alcoholics Anonymous. In turn “Willy Wonka” is a play on the name of Alcoholics Anonymous founder William Wilson, a.k.a. Bill W. The story line goes as such; the children and their parents endure a crucible of which most of them fall out of because of impulsiveness and lack of self-control. Only Charley lasts till the end of the ordeal at which point Wonka rejects him on the basis that Charley was overcome by his impulsive nature, indulging in the Fizzy soda, thus breaking the rules, therefore disqualifying himself from inheriting the Chocolate factory. Only after Charley gives back the everlasting gobstopper and his “will” to inherit the factory does Wonka grant Charley the factory. The key here is Charley gave up his “will” and was thus rewarded for so doing. This here fits right into the framework of Alcoholics Anonymous ideal that, “human will is of no use what so ever”.I find it most plausible that many government officials, politicians, musicians, artists, and elitist types know the secret of Aleister Crowley and A.A. and that no one is willing to publicly uncover this deception that has existed for the last 80 or so years.As stated in “Step Three” of the Twelve Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous, “human will is of no value what so ever,” this serves the Masonic/Illuminati, New World Order agenda perfectly. Another theme emphasized throughout Alcoholics Anonymous is the proclamation that the A.A. member is “powerless”. As governments and elitists endeavor to disempower citizens via corrupt banking practices, taxation, legislation, corrupt corporate influence, and censored and controlled media, a significant portion of a population will engage in the use of alcohol and drugs. To illustrate this fact, one must only look at the alcoholism epidemic of the former Soviet Union and the alcohol and drug abuse which plagues the Native American Culture. It is no mere coincidence that after the creation of the run for profit, privately owned, Federal Reserve in 1913 the Prohibition was enacted, the Stock Market collapsed, and the U.S. endured the Great Depression. This was an attempt by the elitist, illuminati banking families (Rothschild and Rockefeller) at imposing fascistic control. Also during the same period, the Federal Government imposed the Prohibition, and criminalized drugs which were previously legal to purchase and possess. In order for an oppressive government to gain control it must first regulate by legislating and criminalizing personal freedoms. It can be seen today that the problem of drug addiction in America has been made a bigger, more expensive problem than it was at the turn of the century and earlier. Today, this explains why the CIA is known to allow cocaine and heroin to hit the streets of America to this day. If America is fighting a “War on Drugs”, what side does it presume to be on? The scenario is this simple: (1). Illegalize drugs and alcohol (2). Make them readily available then, (3). Force the intentionally created criminals into a program that requires them to give up their free will. This problem – reaction – solution is a perfect example of the Dialectic Philosophy as propounded by the Bavarian Illuminati Georg Friedrich Hegel. This problem – reaction – solution or ‘Order Out of Chaos’ ideology has been the catalyst for a multitude of artificially Masonic/Illuminati created conflicts in the last century alone.As hard as it is to believe the extent people and governments will go to have absolute power, one must only look back to the 1940s for an example. It is also no real secret that the post World War 2 “Project Paper Clip”, a program designed to smuggle high ranking Nazi Officers and scientist to America, was construed because someone or group in the United States had sympathies for certain aspects of the Nazi regime. One cannot deny the fact that Hitler’s was a master at manipulating thought and controlling the masses of Germany and that some of the control techniques would be of some interest to certain power structures in the United States.So now the question must be asked, if Crowley created Alcoholics Anonymous, who is Bill W.? The answer is fairly obvious. William Wilson, or as he is better known, Bill W., is an acceptable, pseudonymic identity put to a program designed by a persona that would not be found acceptable to the masses.Crowley reportedly believed that he was the Anti-Christ as depicted in the Book of Revelations of the New Testament and noting his sadistic, perverted proclivities, one could argue that he may have well lived up to that ideal. Also believing him to be the anti-Christ, Crowley’s own mother, borne Emily Bertha Bishop, bestowed the moniker “Beast” upon her son. Later in life Crowley adopted his fraternal name “To Mega Therion” which translated from Greek means The Great Beast.The reason why Alcoholics Anonymous was written under a fictitious author is obvious. Who would ever adopt a doctrine, designed to be adhered to for life, which was created by a sadistic, sexual pervert, and self admitted murderer who believed he was the Anti-Christ? The answer is presumably far fewer people than there would be under the guise of a pseudonym.However logical the reason was to keep the true identity of the author of Alcoholics Anonymous clandestine for sake of the outwardly unsavory personality traits of Crowley, there is an even more elementary reason for this secrecy. Crowley spent his life in a struggle with addiction to heroin and cocaine. At the age of 72, Crowley died on Dec. 1, 1947, still addicted to and actively using heroin. The reader should understand that this information is not meant as an attack on persons who are members of Alcoholics Anonymous, but rather it is meant to inform those who would aspire to have as much knowledge as possible concerning the institution of Alcoholics Anonymous.
This Website is in a constant state of evolution and is committed to the pursuit of truth and freedom of thought.Your input is greatly appreciated.

63 comments:

Andy M said...

A very interesting piece. I hadn't thought to connect aa directly with "Diary of a Drug-Fiend",although I have long had grave concerns about the Occultic nature of this movement. This is one of the reasons why I left it and now publicly criticise it along with others. You are also absolutely right about its aim of disempowering people through brainwashing. The only thing you don't seem to be aware of is that there is compelling evidence that "Bill W" (Bill Wilson) really did exist as a person, though I wouldn't be at all surprised if Crowley played an unacknowledged part in the ideas behind aa. Wilson was a practising occultist himself, believing that he possessed psychic powers and was in contact with discarnate entities through use of a Ouija Board. He had a room set aside in his house for this purpose which was known as the "spook room". The house "Stepping Stones" is now a museum and shrine of pilgimage for devout aa followers. The "spook room" is now presented as a music room housing Wilson's musical instruments. A well-researched, but highly critical site with much information about Wilson and the origins of aa is:
www.orange-papers.org
although this doesn't go into great details about the occult aspect of aa (I always spell it with small letters because I despise it, but not the people stuck in it). There is much information about aa and Wilson which remains locked away in aa archives. There are persistent rumours that there is devastating stuff there that would destroy this cult. My bet is that a disaffected member with access to it will one day blow the whistle.
I think you are right to emphasise the sinister occult nature of aa

PATRICK said...

BILL WILSON'S PACT WITH SATAN

From Bill's Story:
Co - founder of AA, Bill Wilson's story has been in every edition of the book Alcoholics Anonymous.


With ministers, and the world's religions, I parted right there. When they talked of a God personal to me, who was love, superhuman strength and direction, I became irritated and my mind snapped shut against such a theory.


To Christ I conceded the certainty of a great man, not too closely followed by those who claimed Him. His moral teaching -- most excellent. For myself, I had adopted those parts, which seemed convenient and not too difficult; the rest I disregarded.


My friend suggested what then seemed a novel idea. He said, "Why don't you choose your own conception of God?"


That statement hit me hard. It melted the icy intellectual mountain in whose shadow I had lived and shivered many years. I stood in the sunlight at last.



It was only a matter of being willing to believe in a Power greater than myself. Nothing more was required of me to make my beginning. I saw that growth could start from that point. Upon a foundation of complete willingness I might build what I saw in my friend. Would I have it? Of course I would!


Thus was I convinced that God is concerned with us humans when we want Him enough? At long last I saw, I felt, I believed. Scales of pride and prejudice fell from my eyes. A new world came into view.


The real significance of my experience in the Cathedral burst upon me. For a brief moment, I had needed and wanted God. There had been a humble willingness to have Him with me -- and He came. But soon the sense of His presence had been blotted out by worldly clamours, mostly those within myself. And so it had been ever since. How blind I had been.


At the hospital I was separated from alcohol for the last time. Treatment seemed wise, for I showed signs of delirium tremens.


There I humbly offered myself to God, as I then I understood Him, to do with me as He would. I placed myself unreservedly under His care and direction. I admitted for the first time that of myself I was nothing; that without Him I was lost. I ruthlessly faced my sins and became willing to have my newfound Friend take them away, root and branch.


I have not had a drink since. Simple, but not easy; a price had to be paid. It meant destruction of self-centeredness. I must turn in all things to the Father of Light who presides over us all.



These were revolutionary and drastic proposals, but the moment I fully accepted them, the effect was electric. There was a sense of victory, followed by such a peace and serenity, as I had never known. There was utter confidence.

I felt lifted up, as though the great clean wind of a mountaintop blew through and through. God comes to most men gradually, but His impact on me was sudden
and profound.

For a moment I was alarmed, and called my friend, the doctor, to ask if I were still sane. He listened in wonder as I talked.



Finally he shook his head saying, "Something has happened to you I don't understand. But you had better hang on to it. Anything is better than the way you were." The good doctor now sees many men who have such experiences. He knows that they are real.


While I lay in the hospital the thought came that there were thousands of hopeless alcoholics who might be glad to have what had been so freely given me. Perhaps I could help some of them. They in turn might work with others.


There is no mention of JESUS CHRIST in the BIG BOOK or the 12 STEPS. SATAN to delude millions of people used Wilson.


John 3:16 (chapter 3, verse 16 of the Gospel of John) are one of the most widely quoted verses from the Christian Bible. It has been called the "Bible in a nutshell" because it is considered a summary of some of the most central doctrines of traditional Christianity:


For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have Eternal Life.


I, PATRICK, AM A GIFT TO ALL PEOPLE.

cast iron horse radish said...

orange-papers.org is enlightening. Thanks for sharing that. The information on that Hell Spawn sicko of power & privilege was something I recently heard about, before a Foie Gras protest in PDX (F*ck Foie Gras!) Now, here the P-Town Pixie has provided these details, how synchronistic? I've come with a solid answer about why I dislike drinking; " Alcohol is poisonous shit!" The NWO is likewise a societal toxin. Individual sovereignty & life on Earth is under attack, act up-fight back!

kemetian said...

i left aa and na and i will never let these programs brainwash me again

gagagooga said...

Hi,
yes, quite interesting.. but there seems to be quite a lot of things that dont make sense to me..
like you say, there are similarities in the idea of free will between Crowley and Bill W, but they're in completely opposing directions! The 'drug fiend' talks of either holding on tightly to our own will, or giving it to satan, but AA talks of giving it to some sort of benevolant divine force, of your own understanding. A power for good, helping others and transforming troubled individuals into happy, decent people, and not indulging in self will run riot sex n drug n black magic orgies.. whatever floats your boat like, as the Hindus say, inquire, be honest and know thyself.. but I don't see much comparison to be honest..

Also, if AA was a covert social mechanism for control, through feeding society booze, then forcing them into a 12 step program of giving up self will, then its not very effective because
1 - people will drink wether governments ban it or try force it down their necks with low prices and much advertising (I think they make so much money in tax that this may be in fact be the case)
2 - AA is based on attraction rather than promotion.
3 - there is no doctrine, or religion in AA, its just suggested that if you've tried everything else to stop or control your drinking and can't, then why not try asking for spiritual help.
4 - most alcoholic / problem drinkers dont make it to AA, and most of those that do get in the doors don't get sober because most of them don't do the program. Something like a 7% success rate. Not a very good social manipulation tool by the Illuminati, why may well exist... I'd say X Factor was a more effective distraction.. And if even if you do get sober, you're free to go and do anything and vote in anyway you like. but then again its not a matter of left or right, its a matter of us and them.. so they say..

As for Willy Wonka, maybe it was a piss take..? maybe you're smoking a bit much herb? but certainly some food for thought though..

all the best

gagagooga said...

Hi,
yes, quite interesting.. but there seems to be quite a lot of things that dont make sense to me..
like you say, there are similarities in the idea of free will between Crowley and Bill W, but they're in completely opposing directions! The 'drug fiend' talks of either holding on tightly to our own will, or giving it to satan, but AA talks of giving it to some sort of benevolant divine force, of your own understanding. A power for good, helping others and transforming troubled individuals into happy, decent people, and not indulging in self will run riot sex n drug n black magic orgies.. whatever floats your boat like, as the Hindus say, inquire, be honest and know thyself.. but I don't see much comparison to be honest..

Also, if AA was a covert social mechanism for control, through feeding society booze, then forcing them into a 12 step program of giving up self will, then its not very effective because
1 - people will drink wether governments ban it or try force it down their necks with low prices and much advertising (I think they make so much money in tax that this may be in fact be the case)
2 - AA is based on attraction rather than promotion.
3 - there is no doctrine, or religion in AA, its just suggested that if you've tried everything else to stop or control your drinking and can't, then why not try asking for spiritual help.
4 - most alcoholic / problem drinkers dont make it to AA, and most of those that do get in the doors don't get sober because most of them don't do the program. Something like a 7% success rate. Not a very good social manipulation tool by the Illuminati, why may well exist... I'd say X Factor was a more effective distraction.. And if even if you do get sober, you're free to go and do anything and vote in anyway you like. but then again its not a matter of left or right, its a matter of us and them.. so they say..

As for Willy Wonka, maybe it was a piss take..? maybe you're smoking a bit much herb? but certainly some food for thought though..

all the best

Paul said...

I have be clean and sober for four years. i used to rob,steal cheat, lost a house never used to see my kids ect ect all the things that comes with being a addict in active addiction .I done the 12 step program and continue to do it and i am a completely changed man. I agree that i have been brainwashed but i think it has been for a bad way of thinking to good.in active using there are three out comes prison, metal hospitals and death surely this is what Satan wants. This way i help others for no gain i've got my family back in my life,i dont steal from my family ect and the list goes on. Are you saying this is what Satan wants?

Paul said...

I have be clean and sober for four years. i used to rob,steal cheat, lost a house never used to see my kids ect ect all the things that comes with being a addict in active addiction .I done the 12 step program and continue to do it and i am a completely changed man. I agree that i have been brainwashed but i think it has been for a bad way of thinking to good.in active using there are three out comes prison, metal hospitals and death surely this is what Satan wants. This way i help others for no gain i've got my family back in my life,i dont steal from my family ect and the list goes on. Are you saying this is what Satan wants?

Jonathan said...

I saw some statistic on http://www.orange-papers.org/ that figured an equal number of people achieve enduring sobriety in as out of the rooms of A.A. Borrowing from one of my favorite philosophers, Will Tuttle, that is the natural ripening of the psyche.

I was in the depths of alcoholic insanity through my adolescence, now after a treatment program and the steps with a sponsor I've been more moderately imbibing with greater understanding of my relationship to myself and obligation to the honor the gift of life.

Many pathways through life all lead to death. Life lives on life until it dies and the decay is absorbed and recharged in plants with life giving energy from the Great Sun.

The sad reality of alcoholism reminds me to take it day by day and be glad. The members of A.A. and especially old timers are interesting and I find going to meetings worthwhile, yet A.A. isn't my higher power, higher power isn't even my higher power. There is an old understanding known as oneness, or isness, that explains everything necessary for us to get our work here done. We are cosmic light expressing itself in infinite manifold forms. Be glad to live and forget about arbitrary tools of coercion like God and Satan.

The strangest thing with that mythology is one obvious contention: that God knew everything that Satan would do and created it all for the purpose of maintaining hierarchy over the lesser expression of God. God being source would mean that every bit of demonic energy in existence is part of God. Satan is part and parcel of God, if you choose to believe in such silly things.

djinn said...

We also must remember that if these secret orders are so crafty it would stand that also the Bible (babel) would also be compromised.

Zoo said...

@ Paul - so you stopped drugging/drinking and your life improved - what has that got to do with AA/NA ?

HINT: NOTHING - YOU DID IT YOURSELF

vegantic said...

The connection is that many "real alcoholics" had tried to stop on their own, had been put in sanitariums and tried all means to control their drinking. For many members of A.A. nothing worked until we got into the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, and there we surrendered to the 12 step way, which works. My last post was in the early stages of a relapse, I'm now back on the path of recovery and seeing God & Satan differently. I'm studying the Essene Book of Peace, which is practical scripture dealing with detoxification, or casting out Satan if you prefer.

vegantic said...

oh, my last post was as Jonathan

will said...

I am in AA and for the first time. I am not angry. I have quit drinking before but never was satisfied. AA gives people a chance to discuss there comman problems w/o some smartass thinking they are weak or it's a joke. You are reaching a bit here. I do think and we think, do you? Book of Jobe, The bible is 100 stories out of thousands. I believe in Jesus. But why would god create the devil? OH yea the story would suck w/o a vilan. God created an arch rival. That he will fight and beat every 1000 years. NO. God is in control not satin. WOW who pissed you off at AA. It works. And no one at my meeting wants people to not think just not overthink. Good luck

vegantic said...

The Bible shows an evolution of communion with God from terrifying natural phenomena to the embodiment of morality.

Of course, Source manifests both good and evil to create a drama which contrasts the stillness of peace.

Each thing has it's opposite, and all is of the One Source.

A little good in the worst of us and a little bad in the best" describes the human condition nicely.

One plant could have a poisonous root which nourishes an edible fruit.

There are Infinite ways to express what Creative Intelligence is and does. Imagining a discussing them is boundary breaking and fun.

I'm enjoying reading Daniel Pinchbeck's "2012:The Return of Quetzalcoatl" which deeply probes the fundamental existential mystery with spectacular quotes and excerpts from C. Jung, R. Steiner, F. Nitsche and many others.

Alcoholics Anonymous suggests to take an open-minded outlook and investigate it by working all 12 steps.

AA also recommends to "..choose your own conception of God", which fundamentalist Christians might deplore since non-christians constitute a significant portion of recovered drunks.

Physical death is, for many, a great fear and mystery. It seems though to be pointless to concern; whether physical dissolution of ego only or total obliteration of psyche also, there is no safety in worry or speculation.

The present lifetime is where ideas, emotions and attitudes give rise to actions. The motivation of Life is God whereas the motivation in fear of the after-Life is Satan, deciet and illusion. Life Eternal has this passing moment to become realized, go on living and practicing "letting live".

"..with us to drink is to die".

James O said...

Well my personal observation is A.A is good however, some of God's creations are better off without them, thanks for sharing enjoy your lfe. After my wife left, the police showed up at my door, I asked them if they had a warrant, one of the officers said "no" when I requested them to leave I heard "it does'nt work that way". A place called "new horizons", I was taken too, were a so called "Doctor", diagnosed me as mentally ill, I was kept there against my wishes and signed in as "mickey mouse". The observation was made that "new horizons" is a "A.A." recruitment facility, in a book called "you are being lied to" there is mention of such places as "A.A." recruitment centers. Conviently if one felt like "going to A.A" they just happened to be there and liberties outside of the "locked up" were offered. In addition I meet woman whom, we share love, whom I meet there and she seems to "just so happen" to behave in a way that justifies A.A. When life was going great if other ls implied they needed 12 step help I spoke well of those creations. Now if this creation was out loving life and a violent lush started to interact with me I would, move to a different point wishing that creation well. Today I rent a refurbished garage, the house I lived in was foreclosed upon after that two years after I was let out of the place. The sentancing "Judge" after I was sentanced realized my stay there was only about my former spouse and divorce asked the so called "Doctor" why I was in the judges court, good for A.A and smashing happy lives thanks for sharing have a nice day.

James O said...

Well my personal observation is A.A is good however, some of God's creations are better off without them, thanks for sharing enjoy your lfe. After my wife left, the police showed up at my door, I asked them if they had a warrant, one of the officers said "no" when I requested them to leave I heard "it does'nt work that way". A place called "new horizons", I was taken too, were a so called "Doctor", diagnosed me as mentally ill, I was kept there against my wishes and signed in as "mickey mouse". The observation was made that "new horizons" is a "A.A." recruitment facility, in a book called "you are being lied to" there is mention of such places as "A.A." recruitment centers. Conviently if one felt like "going to A.A" they just happened to be there and liberties outside of the "locked up" were offered. In addition I meet a woman whom, we share love, whom I meet there and she seems to "just so happen" to behave in a way that justifies A.A. When life was going great if other ls implied they needed 12 step help I spoke well of those creations. Now if this creation was out loving life and a violent lush started to interact with me I would, move to a different point wishing that creation well. Today I rent a refurbished garage, the house I lived in was foreclosed upon after that two years after I was let out of the place. The sentancing "Judge" after I was sentanced realized my stay there was only about my former spouse and divorce asked the so called "Doctor" why I was in the judges court, good for A.A and smashing happy lives thanks for sharing have a nice day.

James O said...

Well my personal observation is A.A is good however, some of God's creations are better off without them, thanks for sharing enjoy your lfe. After my wife left, the police showed up at my door, I asked them if they had a warrant, one of the officers said "no" when I requested them to leave I heard "it does'nt work that way". A place called "new horizons", I was taken too, were a so called "Doctor", diagnosed me as mentally ill, I was kept there against my wishes and signed in as "mickey mouse". The observation was made that "new horizons" is a "A.A." recruitment facility, in a book called "you are being lied to" there is mention of such places as "A.A." recruitment centers. Conviently if one felt like "going to A.A" they just happened to be there and liberties outside of the "locked up" were offered. In addition I meet woman whom, we share love, whom I meet there and she seems to "just so happen" to behave in a way that justifies A.A. When life was going great if other ls implied they needed 12 step help I spoke well of those creations. Now if this creation was out loving life and a violent lush started to interact with me I would, move to a different point wishing that creation well. Today I rent a refurbished garage, the house I lived in was foreclosed upon after that two years after I was let out of the place. The sentancing "Judge" after I was sentanced realized my stay there was only about my former spouse and divorce asked the so called "Doctor" why I was in the judges court, good for A.A and smashing happy lives thanks for sharing have a nice day.

James O said...

Bill W is far from alone in having, experienced " heavens love light" a loving God has all the rights in this universe that the loving God has. There is more than one "game" in this universe and God, universal creator allows for some creations to experience the love " A.A." speaks of minus 12 steps. It is understood that "ways" work there is more than one "way" to perform a task, more than one way to pound a nail in, with a equal result the sometimes difference what tool and how much effort applied. Heavy huh ways as in scales, fishy. If the good intent makes life worse, possibly the "means" hurt and were intended for another. The aspect of " A.A." which frustrates this creation is when one already let go of "resentments" prior to "working the steps" growth goes in the dying direction. One goes in there post forgiving and gets directed to focus on the what allowed, or was focused upon that created a mess of "ugly emotions" let go of in the first place twisted humor. If a person knows that which they are looking for bliss searching another fouls em up, dirty birds. If those coppers wanted to play playstation, great, ride bicycles with me awsome, go on a river boat ride super, God bless everyone yay God, if others help estranges well maybe that will make, goodbye all the easier.

Amanda said...

This is bullshit! I'm 16 years old & in A.A & it has given me so much in life. I was living on the streets drinking everyday, no family, getting arrested, stealing my liqour, doing whatever drugs I could get my hands on etc.. Now i'm with my family, I got real people in my life that love me & actually care about me because I actually do what the program says. & having our own conception of God gives us spirituality, not religion. & I had to share my whole life with someone because I had so much built up & that's why I used. I couldn't stop & didn't want to. Now I don't want to go back & I love what A.A has done for me. My brain needed a good wash :) Been sober for 9 months now! Life couldn't be better in such a short period of time so far & I still got a ways to go. I'm actually happy now. it's not connected to the illuminati. Btw you didn't quote the Big Book very well. Stop tryin to fuck with people's heads !!
Thanks, <3
Amanda!

Amanda said...

This is bullshit! I'm 16 years old & in A.A & it has given me so much in life. I was living on the streets drinking everyday, no family, getting arrested, stealing my liqour, doing whatever drugs I could get my hands on etc.. Now i'm with my family, I got real people in my life that love me & actually care about me because I actually do what the program says. & having our own conception of God gives us spirituality, not religion. & I had to share my whole life with someone because I had so much built up & that's why I used. I couldn't stop & didn't want to. Now I don't want to go back & I love what A.A has done for me. My brain needed a good wash :) Been sober for 9 months now! Life couldn't be better in such a short period of time so far & I still got a ways to go. I'm actually happy now. it's not connected to the illuminati. Btw you didn't quote the Big Book very well. Stop tryin to fuck with people's heads !!
Thanks, <3
Amanda!

Amanda said...

This is bullshit! I'm 16 years old & in A.A & it has given me so much in life. I was living on the streets drinking everyday, no family, getting arrested, stealing my liqour, doing whatever drugs I could get my hands on etc.. Now i'm with my family, I got real people in my life that love me & actually care about me because I actually do what the program says. & having our own conception of God gives us spirituality, not religion. & I had to share my whole life with someone because I had so much built up & that's why I used. I couldn't stop & didn't want to. Now I don't want to go back & I love what A.A has done for me. My brain needed a good wash :) Been sober for 9 months now! Life couldn't be better in such a short period of time so far & I still got a ways to go. I'm actually happy now. it's not connected to the illuminati. Btw you didn't quote the Big Book very well. Stop tryin to fuck with people's heads !!
Thanks, <3
Amanda!

MelT777 said...

As a person who has received much caring and support from AA through its members, I admit I was very surprised by this article. As a person who wants nothing to do with the works of the 'evil one', I am always willing to appreciate the persons who expose the truth in regards to deception, usually to the masses.
However, I must inform you that you have completely and utterly taken AA concepts out of context - in a court of law it is called 'deceipt by omission'.
'We admitted we were powerless..' - in regards to consuming alcohol!!
You claim AA want to 'psychologically break' people - no - they support you to hopefully have a psychological BREAKTHROUGH - to primarily break through the DENIAL of accepting your alcoholism; from admitting your life has become unmanagable.
I have been to AA groups all over Sydney for the last 3 years, and not once has anyone ever even come close to discouraging the connection with my family, nor have any of my AA friends experienced this.
You talk about being subjected to 'slogans' etc. The mind of a person in addiction is completely irrational, defensive & pessimistic. Would you like to inform me what is wrong with AA trying to get its members to understand and adopt self-help and self-affirming phrases such as 'First things first' and 'One day at a time'?It is extremely important, & can even be life-saving, for a person in addiction to hold onto these basic, but 'little rays of hope & encouragement,' An addict by the time they usually artive at AA is SHATTERED - physically, psychologically, emotionally & spiritually - they need to learn to live honestly & stop lying to everyone, and most of all themselves, if they are to have any future that is productive and peaceful.
You mention 'free will'. An addict's behaviour is the very product of 'self-will run RIOT.'
God gives us all a gift of free will, but the addict has abused that gift, and caused absolute havoc & immense pain for themselves & their (usually long-suffering) family.
So in AA, we are asked to look at the possibility of handing our will over to God - (this is a Christian principal by the way) - in other words - seeking God's will instead of following our own - which to this point caused us to almost destroy ourselves. By the way, all steps, etc are suggestions only - AA makes a POINT of NOT encroaching on a person's personal choices & decisions. Also, I have never been, nor ever witnrssed any castagation by one AA member to another. You don't even EVER have to become a member if you don't want to - there's no difference if you join or don't join really - you're always welcome.
If you know want to know what it takes to actually psychologically break someone - read about cult methods and also trauma-based mind control. It takes severe (and very violent) methadologies to 'break a mind'.
AA as far as I have witnessed, is certainly some type of cult trying to 'psychologically break' people - are you kidding? This gentle program hasn't the ability to - even if it tried. I suggest tha

One Son said...

If you think the Jesus a Jew, would condemn A.A., you indeed are lost.
Without A.A. I and countless others would be in the true hell that exists in the here and now just as heaven does.
Only a fool can't see the light of God shines through such a simple program that does little more than allow men and women cursed with the disease of alcoholism and addiction a path to freedom.
We are selfless and filled with love no church would ever allow it's congregation ask questions in mass.
Only the arrogant idiot dares to pretend to know God and yet shun another who lives in peace. Clearly you don't know God.
God never speaks against another. God is compassion.
A.A. has saved my life and I devote myself to my fellow man as an instrument of God.
Good luck on your spiritual journey lost one.
Don't hate, it makes you look the fool.

vegantic said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
vegantic said...

It's quite possible that Bill W. read Diary of a Drug Fiend and the parallels are interesting. "Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous" -Anonymous. Bill W. definitely knew the essence of anarchist P. Kropotkin's book Mutual Aid and called A.A. a benign anarchy. God, according to Christianity, knew that Satan would defy Him and He created him with the free- will to do so. By knowing, empowering and manifesting of His creative intelligence, all that was and is, and all that will be, everything is God's, good and bad, duality in balance in the likeness of God. The etymology of the term God is interesting; this concept of the deity is based upon invocation, calling forth the spirit. It is all magic. The choice before us is to either turn our will over to the beneficent loving God or the Boss Universal. The name of the Bible holds a clue to the Judeo-Christian conception of the deity. "Bi" suggests duality. Jehovah or Yahweh, in the Old Testament, extensively shows malevolence and violence, while Christ is near entirely benevolent and nonviolent. Nature is in control of humanity initially, and the deity conception is somewhat Satanic, then the Christian conception controls the forces of nature. Historical mythology, practical anthropology, it is, through which I've found my own conception of the Creative Intelligence which is powerful and beneficent for my sobriety. Rendering service to our fellows is the symptom of success in the steps.

JOSEPH LILLIE said...

We are all gonna stand before a Holy, and righteous God one day and If He sees you, and doesn't see the blood of his son Jesus christ, your gonna be in trouble, You will be real warm for a real long time. Repent and believe the Gospel.
I agree AA is a cult.

JOSEPH LILLIE said...

I agree AA is a cult. We are all gonna stand before a Holy and righteous God, and if He sees you and He doesn't see the blood of his son Jesus Christ covering you, your gonna be real warm for a real long time. Repent and believe the gospel.

Get a grip said...

Another paranoid and typical 1+1=3. Pure fantasist NWO, Illuminati bullshit.

Noah M said...

First of all I want to say that I am currently going to Alcoholics Anonymous and Cocain Anonymous and have been doing so on and off for the past fourteen years; and therein lies one of the main problems which somebody who was pro AA on this blog brought up. For the majority of people in twelve step programs "the program" does not work. Does anyone out there really think that a 7% success rate is a program to brag about to people, force people into by our court system, and PROMOTE in almost all treatment centers, even those which are Christian based.
The biggest issue that this blog brings up is that it shows what parrots people in the program are. Most of the pro AA comments on this forum are so defensive and the language is taken from most of what you hear coming out of peoples mouths at meetings, in my opinion, possibly because of some brainwashing, but also the need to feel like they fit in.
Attraction rather than promotion, are you kidding me. I CONSTANTLY hear people talk about how they went to treatment centers etc. looking for sponsees. AA is also pretty much known universally by society and when I hear somebody in the program say that they never knew that this program existed I pretty believe they're lying.
If people posting comments don't believe in the NWO, Illuminati, that's fine, but your the ones who investigated the google search called: Alcoholics Anonymous created by the Illuminati.
Why don't some of you actually go to orange-papers.org and investigate? Are you scared that it might actually give you something to think about that differs from the program.
The fact is that people in the program put Bill and Bob and Dr. Silkworth and Carl Jung up on pedestals and they don't really know much about them other than what "AA approved literature" says about them. How do we know that Bill and Bob weren't a front for other people such as Crowley or somebody else or group of people. How many people know that Frank Buchman, the founder of the Oxford groups said that, "Adolph hitler was a great man." Is this the roots of a program that you want to follow BLINDLY.

Noah M said...

I know, I know, I need to do a fourth step because all this is about my problems and my condition not because of any "shortcomings" of the program. BTW I don't think anyone's ever been able to explain why if we drink/use because we have an obsession of the mind and then we continue to because we have an allergy, that it's a disease(b.s.)how can it also be that we drink/use because of all the things we uncover in our fourth step. BTW I have done a fourth step before. I know, I know, I need to do another one; doesn't sound like a very effective step to me. BTW I haven't met one trained psychologist in the program who might facilitate this process the right way.
Like I said I currently go to 12 step programs and have almost three months sober. But (here's where you start becoming biased against me if you haven't already) I am a Christian and there is definitely a heavy anti-Christian biased in 12 step recovery programs, especially I have found in Cocaine Anonymous. I am very heavily just leaning towards relying on my "higher power" Jesus Christ and going to church; and I don't mean the Catholic church either like most people I meet in the program who call themselves Christians. It seems like a lot of Catholics in America call themselves Catholics/Christians and then just do whatever they want. I think that the same thing could be accomplished by journaling about my past life; drugs, stealing, cheating etc. and talking to a therapist or some other person. I don't need to continually go to meetings to be told that I am powerless over drugs and alcohol. If God works through people, don't you think that he's working through you to keep you on the right path to have the power to resist drugs and alcohol.
Besides, I don't look up to most people in the program. The level of profanity that is used, disrespect of women, embrace of anything and everything new age, the anti-Christian bias, not to mention abuse of energy drinks where people might as well be tweaking anyway, are things that I want no part of.
By saying all this I am not intending in any way for people to start doing drugs or drink again, that is the last thing that I want to do, or that I want anyone else to do. This is simply my rant of frustration to people who I would think are investigating by reading this blog and actually want to think about things.
Also about Bill W. In AA literature, either in Pass It On or Dr. Bob And The Good Old Timers it even talks about Bill doing Acid. He was supposedly given acid to help with his depression because they thought that would help back in the day. But, he continued to do it when it wasn't prescribed anymore yet I think people somehow use him getting prescribed LSD for his depression as an excuse to think that he stayed sober.
I also watched a documentary, in an AA meeting hall where it talked about this as well as the fact that he cheated on his wife Lois with his secretary; yet in the documentary they couldn't quite bring themselves to spell it out this way. After about fifty people sat there and watched this I didn't hear one word about how Bill abusing LSD or cheating on his wife was wrong. But, this is also the same meeting hall where an AA member told me about having a wife and a girlfriend. And yes I am being judgemental because we as people who have quit drugs and alcohol and that way of life should be trying to change all aspects of our lives.
To all the doubters of Christianity or church or whatever check it out. Don't just let someone tell you what it is, or think that Catholicism=Christianity and it has left a bad taste in your mouth; or any church that you might have gone to in the past, or whatever belief they told you that you didn't agree with. You might have been right.
This blog has helped me to think a little more about 12 step programs whether it is true or not. Truthfully I think it reaches alot but the overall ideas behind it are what is more important; and also look at the dialogue it has started.

Noah M said...

First of all I want to say that I am currently going to Alcoholics Anonymous and Cocain Anonymous and have been doing so on and off for the past fourteen years; and therein lies one of the main problems which somebody who was pro AA on this blog brought up. For the majority of people in twelve step programs "the program" does not work. Does anyone out there really think that a 7% success rate is a program to brag about to people, force people into by our court system, and PROMOTE in almost all treatment centers, even those which are Christian based.
The biggest issue that this blog brings up is that it shows what parrots people in the program are. Most of the pro AA comments on this forum are so defensive and the language is taken from most of what you hear coming out of peoples mouths at meetings, in my opinion, possibly because of some brainwashing, but also the need to feel like they fit in.
Attraction rather than promotion, are you kidding me. I CONSTANTLY hear people talk about how they went to treatment centers etc. looking for sponsees. AA is also pretty much known universally by society and when I hear somebody in the program say that they never knew that this program existed I pretty believe they're lying.
If people posting comments don't believe in the NWO, Illuminati, that's fine, but your the ones who investigated the google search called: Alcoholics Anonymous created by the Illuminati.
Why don't some of you actually go to orange-papers.org and investigate? Are you scared that it might actually give you something to think about that differs from the program.
The fact is that people in the program put Bill and Bob and Dr. Silkworth and Carl Jung up on pedestals and they don't really know much about them other than what "AA approved literature" says about them. How do we know that Bill and Bob weren't a front for other people such as Crowley or somebody else or group of people. How many people know that Frank Buchman, the founder of the Oxford groups said that, "Adolph hitler was a great man." Is this the roots of a program that you want to follow BLINDLY.

Noah M said...

First of all I want to say that I am currently going to Alcoholics Anonymous and Cocain Anonymous and have been doing so on and off for the past fourteen years; and therein lies one of the main problems which somebody who was pro AA on this blog brought up. For the majority of people in twelve step programs "the program" does not work. Does anyone out there really think that a 7% success rate is a program to brag about to people, force people into by our court system, and PROMOTE in almost all treatment centers, even those which are Christian based.
The biggest issue that this blog brings up is that it shows what parrots people in the program are. Most of the pro AA comments on this forum are so defensive and the language is taken from most of what you hear coming out of peoples mouths at meetings, in my opinion, possibly because of some brainwashing, but also the need to feel like they fit in.
Attraction rather than promotion, are you kidding me. I CONSTANTLY hear people talk about how they went to treatment centers etc. looking for sponsees. AA is also pretty much known universally by society and when I hear somebody in the program say that they never knew that this program existed I pretty believe they're lying.
If people posting comments don't believe in the NWO, Illuminati, that's fine, but your the ones who investigated the google search called: Alcoholics Anonymous created by the Illuminati.
Why don't some of you actually go to orange-papers.org and investigate? Are you scared that it might actually give you something to think about that differs from the program.
The fact is that people in the program put Bill and Bob and Dr. Silkworth and Carl Jung up on pedestals and they don't really know much about them other than what "AA approved literature" says about them. How do we know that Bill and Bob weren't a front for other people such as Crowley or somebody else or group of people. How many people know that Frank Buchman, the founder of the Oxford groups said that, "Adolph hitler was a great man." Is this the roots of a program that you want to follow BLINDLY.

Noah M said...

First of all I want to say that I am currently going to Alcoholics Anonymous and Cocain Anonymous and have been doing so on and off for the past fourteen years; and therein lies one of the main problems which somebody who was pro AA on this blog brought up. For the majority of people in twelve step programs "the program" does not work. Does anyone out there really think that a 7% success rate is a program to brag about to people, force people into by our court system, and PROMOTE in almost all treatment centers, even those which are Christian based.
The biggest issue that this blog brings up is that it shows what parrots people in the program are. Most of the pro AA comments on this forum are so defensive and the language is taken from most of what you hear coming out of peoples mouths at meetings, in my opinion, possibly because of some brainwashing, but also the need to feel like they fit in.
Attraction rather than promotion, are you kidding me. I CONSTANTLY hear people talk about how they went to treatment centers etc. looking for sponsees. AA is also pretty much known universally by society and when I hear somebody in the program say that they never knew that this program existed I pretty believe they're lying.
If people posting comments don't believe in the NWO, Illuminati, that's fine, but your the ones who investigated the google search called: Alcoholics Anonymous created by the Illuminati.
Why don't some of you actually go to orange-papers.org and investigate? Are you scared that it might actually give you something to think about that differs from the program.
The fact is that people in the program put Bill and Bob and Dr. Silkworth and Carl Jung up on pedestals and they don't really know much about them other than what "AA approved literature" says about them. How do we know that Bill and Bob weren't a front for other people such as Crowley or somebody else or group of people. How many people know that Frank Buchman, the founder of the Oxford groups said that, "Adolph hitler was a great man." Is this the roots of a program that you want to follow BLINDLY.

Noah M said...

'Alcoholics Anonymous'
EXPOSED!
The Occult Roots of AA
Psalm 1:1, “Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.”
Occult! Christians continue to insist that Alcoholics Anonymous is compatible with Christianity because of its so-called Christian roots. That is because of its early connection with the Oxford Group, which is now called Moral Re-Armament (MRA). The founders of AA were involved in the Oxford Group movement during the early days, but there is no record of either Bill Wilson or Bob Smith professing Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord or as the only way to the Father. Neither is there a record of them believing or teaching that the only way of salvation is by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross.
Frank Buchman, a Lutheran minister, began a movement which he originally called "A First Century Christian Fellowship." In 1928 the name of the movement changed to the "Oxford Group." The other leader of the movement, who was influential in the development of AA, was Samuel Shoemaker, rector of an Episcopal church. The thrust of the movement was experience rather than clear biblical doctrine.
Buchman explained that "he never touched any doctrine in any of his meetings, as he did not want to upset or offend anyone."1 (Emphasis in original.) By keeping his doctrinal beliefs to himself, Buchman was able to appeal to people of all religious persuasions.
________________________________________

Noah M said...

The following is Wilson’s description of the Oxford Group:
The Oxford Group was a nondenominational evangelical movement, streamlined for the modern world and then at the height of its very considerable success. . . . They would deal in simple common denominators of all religions which would be potent enough to change the lives of men and women.2 (Emphasis added.)
However, there is some evidence that the founders of AA did have opportunity to hear the Gospel,3 but instead of receiving Christ as Lord and Savior and experiencing freedom in Christ and victory over sin through faith in Christ alone, Wilson and Smith took only what they wanted from the Oxford Group. Here we will examine three aspects of what AA borrowed: guidance, surrender, and moral principles.

Occult Guidance
Members of the Oxford Group practiced what they called guidance by praying and then quieting their minds in order to hear from God. Then they would write down whatever came to them.4 Examples of such "guidance" are in the book God Calling, edited by A. J. Russell of the Oxford Group.5 The book was written anonymously by two women who thought they were hearing from God, but who passively received messages in the same way spiritists obtain guidance from demons.
Members of the Oxford Group primarily found their guidance from within rather than from a creed or the Bible. Buchman, for instance, was known to spend "an hour or more in complete silence of soul and body while he gets guidance for that day."6
J. C. Brown in his book The Oxford Group Movement says of Buchman:
He teaches his votaries to wait upon God with paper and pencil in hand each morning in this relaxed and inert condition, and to write down whatever guidance they get. This, however, is just the very condition required by Spiritist mediums to enable them to receive impressions from evil spirits. . . and it is a path which, by abandoning the Scripture-instructed judgment (which God always demands) for the purely occult and the psychic, has again and again led over the precipice. The soul that reduces itself to an automaton may at any moment be set spinning by a Demon.7 (Emphasis his.)
Dr. Rowland V. Bingham, Editor of The Evangelical Christian says:
We do not object to their taking a pad and pencil to write down any thoughts of guidance which come to them. But to take the thoughts especially generated in a mental vacuum as Divine guidance would throw open to all the suggestions of another who knows how to come as an angel of light and whose illumination would lead to disaster.8 (Emphasis his.)

Noah M said...

In a very real sense their personal journals became their personal scriptures. Wilson practiced this passive form of guidance, which he originally learned through the Oxford Group. He and Smith were also heavily involved in contacting and conversing with so-called departed spirits from 1935 on. This is necromancy, which the Bible forbids. During the same period of time, Wilson was practicing spiritism in a manner similar to channeling.9 Thus, Wilson combined the Oxford Group practice of guidance with spiritism or channeling, and this appears to be the process he used when writing the Twelve Steps:
As he started to write, he asked for guidance. And he relaxed. The words began tumbling out with astonishing speed.10
Wilson was accustomed to asking for guidance and then stilling his mind to be open to the spiritual world, which for him involved various so-called departed spirits. Wilson does not identify any specific entity related to the original writing of the Twelve Steps, but he does give credit to the spirit of a departed bishop when he was writing the manuscript for Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, which constitutes Wilson’s commentary on how all of the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are to be understood, interpreted, and practiced.
When he wrote the essays on each of the twelve steps, he sent some to Ed Dowling, a Roman Catholic priest, to evaluate. In his accompanying letter of July 17, 1952, Wilson says, "But I have good help — of that I am certain. Both over here and over there."11 Then he explains that one spirit from "over there" that helped him called himself Boniface. Wilson says:
One turned up the other day calling himself Boniface. Said he was a Benedictine missionary and English. Had been a man of learning, knew missionary work and a lot about structures. I think he said this all the more modestly but that was the gist of it. I’d never heard of this gentleman but he checked out pretty well in the Encyclopedia. If this one is who he says he is—and of course there is no certain way of knowing—would this be licit contact in your book?12
Dowling responds in his letter of July 24, 1952:

Noah M said...

Boniface sounds like the Apostle of Germany. I still feel, like Macbeth, that these folks tell us truth in small matters in order to fool us in larger. I suppose that is my lazy orthodoxy.13
One can see the stretch of years during which Wilson received messages from disembodied spirits. The official biography of Bill Wilson says, "One of Bill’s persistent fascinations and involvements was with psychic phenomena." It speaks of his "belief in clairvoyance and other extrasensory manifestations" and in his own psychic ability.14 This was not a mere past-time. It was a passion directly related to AA.15 The manner in which Wilson would receive messages not of his own making was definitely channeling.16 The records of these sessions, referred to as "Spook Files," have been closed to public inspection.17
Satan can appear as an angel of light and give guidance that may sound right because it may be close to the truth or contain elements of truth. A discerning Christian would avoid any guidance that comes through occult methods. Therefore, this aspect of the Oxford Group, further contaminated by spiritism, cannot constitute any "Christian root" condoning Christians using and promoting AA.
SurrenderStep Three of AA is "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him." While many in the Oxford Group placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, there was much leeway given. Shoemaker, a leader of the Oxford Group, says that "the true meaning of faith is self-surrender to God." He further explains:
Surrender to whatever you know about Him, or believe must be the truth about Him. Surrender to Him, if necessary, in total ignorance of Him. Far more important that you touch Him than that you understand Him at first. Put yourself in His hands. Whatever He is, as William James said, He is more ideal than we are. Make the leap. Give yourself to Him.18
Aside from capitalizing the "H," which Christians do to refer to the God of the Bible, "Him" could refer to any god of one’s own making. The reference to the psychologist William James emphasizes Shoemaker’s faith in the power experience over the truth of God.19
Shoemaker believed that people would come to know God by experiencing Him through surrender and through following certain moral principles. He says, "The new life begins by utter self-dedication to the will of God. All of us can do that, and must."20
One can see how surrender to a god of one’s own creation found its way into the Twelve Steps of AA. When a person is not clear about the Gospel, who Jesus is and what He did to save sinners, he is not presenting a Christian message. AA picked up the idea of surrender, but without Christ and without the whole counsel of God.
Surrendering to anyone but the God of the Bible constitutes idolatry. AA is another religion with its own forms of piety, including surrender to a nebulous higher power. This pious surrender does not constitute a "Christian root" that can justify Christians using and promoting AA.

Noah M said...

Moral Principles and Their Source
In describing itself as an organization, this is what MRA (formerly called the Oxford Group) says about itself:
MRA is a world wide network of women and men who have started with themselves to bring the changes they want to see around them.21
Here’s how they start with themselves:
To start with yourself, you measure how you are now living by absolute moral standards of honesty, purity, unselfishness and love. (For Christians these are in the Sermon on the Mount; they are also found in other major religions.)22 (Parenthesis in original.)
People are told to make a list and then "give all you know of yourself to all you understand of God, and ask God’s help to put right those things beyond your own power to change." So far there is no information about which god one is to choose, since one can follow any religion or no religion.
While some in MRA may read the Bible, as they did in its early Oxford Group days, the primary source of knowledge is the "inner voice." Here are the instructions given in the MRA brochure:
Take time to listen every day to the inner voice, write down your thoughts, and obey those that conform to these standards.23
Even though a follower of MRA attempts to follow moral standards from the Bible or the moral teachings of any other religion, his primary light is that inner voice and his primary goal is self-improvement. No cross is necessary; no shed blood is required. Like AA, MRA is a religion of works. Here is what MRA says about its "religious affiliation":
It has always been a Christian based, interfaith work. It brings together people of all backgrounds and cultures in a program of effective change using principles that are accepted by every major faith.24
Aside from the words "Christian based," that definition sounds like a description of AA. But how can it be truly "Christian based" when it is without the cross and without a Lord Jesus Christ, who said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6)? Rather than faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified, MRA is a religion of self-improvement and subjective mysticism.

Noah M said...

One can indeed see the similarity between the Oxford Group (MRA) and Alcoholics Anonymous (AA). Both allow Christians to participate as long as they do not preach Christ and Him crucified or dare to say that He is the only way to the Father. Both appeal to an unidentified god, both rely on mysticism, and both aim for self-improvement. What AA got from the Oxford Group was clearly not Christianity. There are no "Christian roots." Because the central core doctrines of Christianity are absent, AA constitutes a counterfeit religion, not a neutral organization with "Christian roots."
(For more information about AA, see 12 Steps to Destruction by Martin and Deidre Bobgan.)
________________________________________

Noah M said...

1. William C. Irvine. Heresies Exposed. New York: Loizeaux Brothers, Inc., 1921, p. 54.
2. Wilson quoted in Pass It On: The story of Bill Wilson and how the A.A. message reached the world. New York: Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., 1984, pp. 127,128.
3. Samuel M. Shoemaker. Courage to Change: The Christian Roots of the 12-Step Movement. Bill Pittman and Dick B., eds. Grand Rapids, MI: Fleming H. Revel/Baker Book House Company, 1994, pp. 11-24.
4. Ibid., p. 198.
5. A. J. Russell, ed. God Calling. New York: Jove Publications, 1978.
6. William C. Irvine. Heresies Exposed. New York: Loizeaux Brothers, Inc., 1921, pp. 58,59.
7. J. C. Brown quoted by Irvine, ibid., p. 49.
8. Rowland V. Bingham quoted by Irvine, ibid., p. 50.
9. Pass It On, op. cit., pp. 275-283.
10. Ibid., p. 198.
11. Robert Fitzgerald, S.J. The Soul of Sponsorship: The Friendship of Fr. Ed Dowling, S.J. and Bill Wilson in Letters. Center City, MN: Hazelden Pittman Archives Press, 1995, p. 59.
12. Ibid., p. 59.
13. Ibid., p. 59.
14. Pass It On, op. cit., p. 275.
15. Ibid., p. 280.
16. Ibid., pp. 278,279.
17. Ernest Kurtz. Not God: A History of Alcoholics Anonymous. Center City, MN: Hazelden Educational Materials, 1979, p. 344.
18. Shoemaker, op. cit, p. 44.
19. See Bobgan & Bobgan. 12 Steps to Destruction: Codependency/Recovery Heresies. Santa Barbara, CA: EastGate Publishers, 1991, pp. 88,89.
20. Ibid., p. 46.
21. "What is MRA?" Moral-Re-Armament, 1885 University Ave. W. #10, St. Paul, MN 55104.
22. Ibid.
23. Ibid.
24. Ibid.
SOURCE: PsychoHeresy Awareness Ministries, 4137 Primavera Road, Santa Barbara, CA 93110
www.psychoheresy-aware.org
________________________________________
Here's a Christian alternative to Alcoholics Anonymous...



Founded in 1948, Alcoholics Victorious support groups offer a safe environment where recovering people who recognize Jesus Christ as their "Higher Power" gather together and share their experience, strength and hope. AV meetings use both the 12 Steps and the Alcoholics Victorious Creed.
There is Hope!
________________________________________
Freemasonry and AA are of the Devil



AA and the 12-step program. Look at the logo for AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) and look at the logo for the Grand Lodge of Zurich. A common symbolism in Freemasonry is the “Triangle inside the Circle.” The stinking Freemasons are of the Devil and you need to stay away from them. Deception is their game, and infiltration their aim. 95% of Freemasons are stooges for the upper Luciferian-worshipping elders within their organization. Their god is Satan, the Evil One. Masons have infiltrated everything from religion to public schools with their plot to construct World Government. They will succeed only at their own peril.
I would hate to stand before God one day, having to give account for supporting such a hideous group. Arrogant worldly men thinking they are prestigious for belonging to such a secretive group, telling people that they are Freemason members in an attempt to impress; but all they are doing is showing their woeful ignorance or evil heart for supporting such dastardly wickedness in highplaces. Freemasons are fools in God's eyes. Having said that, Alcoholics Anonymous was founded by Masons and teaches the same cancerous garbage found in all Masonic lodges. Their Great Architect is Lucifer, the Devil, Satan.
"Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils." —1st Corinthians 10:21

Daniel Rigby said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Daniel Rigby said...

I thought this was a page searching for truth, yet the author deletes my truthful post. The claims in this blog are extremely one sided, no Patrick Jesus christ is not mentioned in the AA big book,it is a program not based around your religion or any religion for that matter. This blog is just a bunch of religious nuts harping on how they are right. Yet you are the ones worshiping a false prophet who was and still is able to fool the world into thinking he was something he was not. End of day, the lord you so worship so much was a whore lover, his mother was a tart who committed adultery so that you could have your beloved jesus. There is but one god, one lord, and he resides in us all, individually. The devil is a figment of christians and catholics imaginations, used as a scare tactic to control people within the church. The devil is an excuse you use when you do something immoral. " oh i was possessed by the devil" NO YOU WERE NOT, you have an alibi to behave in an immoral way and that itself is extremely immoral

Marijo DeGuzman said...

So what is a person suppose to do if they don't want to do the 12 step program or go to treatment?? The Government is very very fuckin smart, and I feel so bad for those people who are atticts who truley want to change their lives. I myself am a recovering attic, and when I found out about this I felt lost.

Maags said...

Drug addicts and alcoholics are so screwed up, they need to abandon their will to a higher power in order to stay clean.

I love AA. Illuminati or not, I"m staying with it. It's the only thing that has ever given me the power to live sober and be happy. There's more to it than abandoning one's will. Often this has to be done on a daily basis. It's not a one time brainwashing deal and AA members are just robots doing the will of whoever. It has to be done a lot. Even Christians have this philosophy, of letting go and letting god. I love AA. I love what its done for my life and countless others of my friends.

vegantic said...

Do what it takes to stay clean & sober, if that is what you believe your Higher Power's will is; I hope we continue doing what is better for everyone instead of what our addictions coerce and demand from us. People may have legitimate concerns about Alcoholics Anonymous (or the faults of some of its members), and such fault finding is also a basis on which our addictions legitimate their death grip on our lives. Wherever you find the love, thereto go, and keep going.

Chris said...

This article is bs. AA is an organization that I've seen help millions of people out of their addictions. They recognize God, and for those who don't believe in God they have a higher power. Those who get wrapped up in addiction are under the spell of a demonic force, AA simply put breaks the demonic force.

Chris said...

HINT. .. YOU ARE AN ATHIEST AND BELIEVE IN NOTHING.

PLEASE TELL ME WHERE WE CAME FROM. HOW WE WERE CREATED? YOU CAN'T. SO YOUR WAY OF DEALING WITH REALITY IS TO BELIEVE IN NOTHING

vegantic said...

@ Chris, your first comment leads with the proverbial chin, which the AA Big Book suggests against doing. Your second comment starts with a hasty generalization, the concept that sparklesdelicious (SD) believes in nothing (btw, that is nihilism not atheism) contradicts logic (which the AA Big Book suggests appreciating) as SD has posited beliefs which you criticized in your first comment. Your second comment is an ad hominem attack, attacking the character of the believer/conceiver rather than the beliefs/concepts or process of coming to believe/conceive them. Also, an AA context definition of humility is admitting our nescience and ignorance, and then we can accept that we do not need to have every answer for life to mean enough for us to decide and take action to stop abusing substances a day at a time. Anyway, "to each thine own."

Heather said...

This is exactly what Child Protective Services tries to do to parents. Its the same program I'm going through now in this homeless shelter in northern California. Thank God (of the Bible) I have God and the Bible. My only support. The way out. The freedom to choose right from wrong and the conscience to know the difference.

Furryface said...

I too am a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I agree with the outsiders that it is brainwashing when the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are read at every meeting. It is meant that way so the newer members will get to memorize the steps in fairly short order.

There is a lot of talk of God but when it comes down to it, it is a belief in something more powerful than yourself. It doesn't have to be God. I am a pagan and follow the Wiccan spiritual path. I wear my pentacle all the time including AA meetings and functions. No one has put me down or called me a devil worshipper. Sometimes I get asked about my path so I explain it to people in the simplest terms possible. I tell them to take Mother Nature and "The Force" from Star Wars and combine the two. Most people can comprehend that.

I have a really hard time digesting The New World Order and AA in the same sentence. Anyone can take stories and merge them into their own classic conspiracy theory.

Carrie Pakebusch said...

I am finding this fascinating... <3
First off. I love AA and NA. They have each been a huge part of my life... For a very long time. But so has the devil. I never called him by his name, till now, these past 5 years. At one time I only belived in a higher power. But when you believe in one you have to believe in the other, if not...nothing makes sense. Satabe was always called the enemy, in the program. At 21 I was introduced to the program. I dove in. I loved them, they loved me, I was home. I loved my higher power I was so happy.

After 8 years sober I relaspsed. And stayed in a relapse for eight more years and wound up in prison.
In prison I found Jesus.
I did not know at that time my life would drastically change but I knew something was different. I could not explain it. But something shifted.
After prison I went back to the program... My family was happy to see me and I them. I liked the meetings but I missed all I was and had learned about Jesus in prison. So I found a church... And I started doing both. :) I was happy.
But after a while... With Jesus you receive the Holy spirit.. And my holy spirit was having a hard time in the meetings, and I was having a hard time calling myself an addict every day when I knew that I was made new by the blood...also Jesus was not allowed, and He had become my best friend. I started feeling like I didn't fit in. I did not think nothing of it...and just started to tapper off from the meetings and just do church. After a couple years there with church I started to feel uneasy as well...I had noticed that even though people were calling themselves Christians they were still sinning openlying and repentance, true repentance was not expressed much... It was alot of ego and my best is yet to come type stuff.
I started doing research.
I found out about aposticy, herisy, and fasle teachers... Prophets. Telling you about your best now but not preparing you for what's to come. Cleaning out your soul and being obedient to God not yourself.
I also started researching the NWO which I read about in prison.

I knew the devil was real and now it all started to make sense... The occult the symbolism the illuminati...(every group you can think of... Masons, New Age movement (kundinali sprit (yoga ect.)), aa na, different religions, TV., fake pagan holidays, wrong sabbath days, music!) All of it.. It's everywhere. Satan is using it all to keep Gods people from finding....the one true God... JESUS. :) Jesus! Satan's so sneaky (cunning baffling powerful) I promise you anything that will not a let you to know or deepen your relationship with Jesus is under satan (the snake in the gardens) thumb. Satans got his hand all in this (he's tricky) I never dreamed five years ago the journey i was about to embark on would lead me to this... I always knew something more was going on I just never fathomed it was this hard core.I know I may sound Wackadoo but I promise you I'm not. I'm wide awake, ask God to awaken you too and if you do not know the true Jesus Christ, the one who shed His blood for you at calery... I promise you...You will not make it out here alive. The bible, I know there is a lot of controversy but it is the oldest book and the only one that holds prophecy... For a reason. Wake up! Without Jesus you cannot get into heaven,"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the father except through me" John14:6.
Now do you understand why satan does not want you to know of Him? Jesus Christ..Please just think about it. Much love to you my brothers and sisters in aa, na, and Christ. I love you God Bless. Find out the truth, make Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior <3

Carrie Pakebusch said...

I am finding this fascinating... <3
First off. I love AA and NA. They have each been a huge part of my life... For a very long time. But so has the devil. I never called him by his name, till now, these past 5 years. At one time I only belived in a higher power. But when you believe in one you have to believe in the other, if not...nothing makes sense. Satabe was always called the enemy, in the program. At 21 I was introduced to the program. I dove in. I loved them, they loved me, I was home. I loved my higher power I was so happy.

After 8 years sober I relaspsed. And stayed in a relapse for eight more years and wound up in prison.
In prison I found Jesus.
I did not know at that time my life would drastically change but I knew something was different. I could not explain it. But something shifted.
After prison I went back to the program... My family was happy to see me and I them. I liked the meetings but I missed all I was and had learned about Jesus in prison. So I found a church... And I started doing both. :) I was happy.
But after a while... With Jesus you receive the Holy spirit.. And my holy spirit was having a hard time in the meetings, and I was having a hard time calling myself an addict every day when I knew that I was made new by the blood...also Jesus was not allowed, and He had become my best friend. I started feeling like I didn't fit in. I did not think nothing of it...and just started to tapper off from the meetings and just do church. After a couple years there with church I started to feel uneasy as well...I had noticed that even though people were calling themselves Christians they were still sinning openlying and repentance, true repentance was not expressed much... It was alot of ego and my best is yet to come type stuff.
I started doing research.
I found out about aposticy, herisy, and fasle teachers... Prophets. Telling you about your best now but not preparing you for what's to come. Cleaning out your soul and being obedient to God not yourself.
I also started researching the NWO which I read about in prison.

I knew the devil was real and now it all started to make sense... The occult the symbolism the illuminati...(every group you can think of... Masons, New Age movement (kundinali sprit (yoga ect.)), aa na, different religions, TV., fake pagan holidays, wrong sabbath days, music!) All of it.. It's everywhere. Satan is using it all to keep Gods people from finding....the one true God... JESUS. :) Jesus! Satan's so sneaky (cunning baffling powerful) I promise you anything that will not a let you to know or deepen your relationship with Jesus is under satan (the snake in the gardens) thumb. Satans got his hand all in this (he's tricky) I never dreamed five years ago the journey i was about to embark on would lead me to this... I always knew something more was going on I just never fathomed it was this hard core.I know I may sound Wackadoo but I promise you I'm not. I'm wide awake, ask God to awaken you too and if you do not know the true Jesus Christ, the one who shed His blood for you at calery... I promise you...You will not make it out here alive. The bible, I know there is a lot of controversy but it is the oldest book and the only one that holds prophecy... For a reason. Wake up! Without Jesus you cannot get into heaven,"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the father except through me" John14:6.
Now do you understand why satan does not want you to know of Him? Jesus Christ..Please just think about it. Much love to you my brothers and sisters in aa, na, and Christ. I love you God Bless. Find out the truth, make Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior <3

jayborneo said...

My baby's mother has been brainwashed by this cult (NA) I don't know what to do but I have to save her. Please help 714-812-6228

Blue Eyed Devil said...

This is a completely misinformed point of view.
One can draw connections between many organizations or ideas which really have very little to do with each other.
I have to think that the people brainwashed by AA or NA would be the same people brainwashed by TV commercials, road signs; etc;.
Possibly even those of you ignorant enough to be brainwashed by this article.
Ignorant meaning that you don't know, not that you are stupid.

Just because both Jews and Nazis used the written word for propaganda, often grossly distorting facts to the point of flat out lies, does not mean that they had the same goals, agenda or proponents.
Similar modes and methods, like guns in the hands of crooks or cops, does not indicate similar organizations.
To say that cops are crooks because they both shoot people is a bit of a stretch.

AA has taken so many people who were bound for prison, mental institutions, death, social expulsion and definitely suicide and helped turn them around.
After 'drying out', the vast majority of these people go on to lead normal lives.
They become agnostic, atheist, democrat, republican, libertarian, occultists, doctors, lawyers, garbagemen, politicians, teachers.
Are you getting the picture?
Just an average swath of the population, except they are relieved of alcohol addiction.
How is this evil?

Most of the people who are successful followers of the AA principals went from hating God to either loving God or at least letting go the hatred and perhaps not even believing in god.
Once again, just a common person relieved of a mental blockage, namely hatred of a 'higher power'.

The writer lacks the comprehension that letting go and admitting powerless is actually accepting a truth.
What it means is that you have continually failed to do something by yourself. (get sober)
No matter what you tried, or how hard, by yourself you continued to fail.
You admit that you are powerless and ask for help.

Thats it! Thats the big secret!
Oh Satan and the NWO! Get thee back! How dare I be brainwashed into asking for assistance!

No different that asking for a loan when your broke, a ride when you car is down, taking a aspirin to get rid of a headache.
People go to doctors every day but the writer would convince you that you have been brainwashed into thinking you can't cut out your cancer at home with a parring knife.

For shame on you to admit that you are powerless to cut out your own cancer and need assistance.
For shame if you ask God for help by praying for mercy.

You empower yourself by admitting you cannot stand alone.
You accept a higher power because this higher power can accompany you anywhere.
You are Never Alone, (NA).
You choose a higher power because the only requirement for AA is the desire to stop drinking.
You do not have to believe in Jesus, God, Allah, Buda, Santa, Satan, Awiass or anything in particular.
Your higher power can be a force you can trust, understand and even, (perish the thought), respect.
Allegory abounds within AA and understanding develops over time.
Yet these allegories are not political or religious, they are moral.

Like all spiritually based organizations working the program, (Steps), one is unlikely to understand said allegories and thus make some profoundly inept assumptions.

There is certainly no agenda whatsoever to the AA program other than to help the still suffering alcoholic.
They do not ally themselves with any political, religious or governmental organization.
The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.
You do not have to donate time or money.
You can use a false name.
You sign nothing.
You do not have to talk.
You do not have to follow the steps, they are suggested because if you follow them you WILL NOT FAIL.
The requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking as that is also the initial aim of AA.
The following aims are to empower you to enjoy your life and be a boon to others.

Yep, gotta be some schema of the NWO and Satan.

Hermit Coven said...

I really liked this article also. I have studied the 12 step program for some time, and found many of these same correlations. I have studied Crowley's work enough also, to see these parallels early on in my studies and comparisons of the two.

One consideration to be made concerning the AA concept of self will, according to AA, is in step 3, where it says something along the lines of; "it is when one 'conforms' their will to that of a higher power, does one begin to use it rightly"
I would say this differs from this author's article interpretation that AA literature suggests- one 'abandon' their will to that of a higher power, when in fact, it clearly states- 'conforming' will to that of a higher power, rather than 'abandoning' one's will to it.. Upon consideration of this, it seems to me, undeniable that there is a difference between these two concepts, and the author is out of context.

On final note for consideration on the 'cult' topic that I find more interesting, as well as important is this; the structures of any society, past, present, or future (including that which we currently live), upon careful study, by and large, bare far more resemblance to a cult society than that of Alcoholics Anonymous. In my experience, people have found seeming respite from the cult of mainstream society, including patriotism, classism, racism, mentalism, sexism, mainstream 'culture' brainwash romanticizing drug and alcohol abuse and sexual obsession, among many other examples, within AA, than finding respite from without it.

The undeniable cult-like structure of Americanism is indeed inescapable. As well, the many religious churches of virtually every denomination, including Christianity, that have been infiltrated, corrupted, and/or even created by cult practices principles-

So where do we as individuals find escape and respite from 'cultism', I think, is the real question here, and the answer seems unattainable.

Present me with any person, society or ideological order 'free' of cult practices and principles, and I will present to you, that very person, society, or ideology, in and of itself, a cult.

With the inescapable presence of cultism, it is easy to point out different factions that are cults, as our society is the cult that all cults stem from. I think the real challenge here, is not pointing out where this or that society IS a cult, but rather, finding a society that is NOT a cult. I have yet to discover one in life, or anyone pointing to a viable 'society free from cultism'. And if this is as impossible as it seems to be, at the very LEAST, we ought to seek to identify that cult which is conducive to minimizing harm, and maximizing productivity toward the well being of all. AA, as far as 'cults' go, in my experience seem to rank up with the top 10,or better, least harmful cults within the cult of society we are imprisoned.

-Hermit Coven

CJ Burke said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CJ Burke said...

Read my post.

Brook Krieger said...

I have to say that it is funny that people are so far off in both directions that you miss the point. If you are truly in the AA movement, then I would say "keep what you like and leave the rest". If AA is so great then there is no need to defend it. I have been a member for 26 years and it finally dawned on me that, anything that says "it is the only way" has to be wrong. Now if you went to an AA meeting and they said to you "if this doesn't work we would be glad to help you find what does" they never say this, then I would be more apt to believe what they are saying. And by the way, don't ever question Bill W's acts or indiscretions, there will always be an excuse for why he did it. The truth is if you are uncomfortable going to AA or any of the 12 step groups don't go. If you are in AA and truly are a practicing member, then why in the hell are you even commenting here or anywhere on the internet, if you are you need to go through the traditions and understand them. Just incase you might have conveniently forgot this one, here you go:

Tradition 10
Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
No A.A. group or member should ever, in such way as to implicate A.A., express any opinion on outside issues - particularly those of politics, alcohol reform or sectarian religion. The Alcoholics Anonymous groups oppose no one. Concerning such matters they can express no views whatever.

So don't claim to be going or from AA while posting on this or any other form. I found this article to very interesting and will take into consideration on what it is saying.

JP O'Keefe said...

What are the character assets of this fellowship?

Lisa Zermane said...

OK, first off, I feel very sad for the alcoholic or addict who rejects AA or NA out of concern for his/her Christianity. It's preferable to continue drinkin or druggin because the founder may have been a freemason?? Who cares what he did a million years ago, aside from telling me how to get sober? This article is interesting, but come on. This kind of "OOoooooo, look at what a heathen this guy was!" attitude that turns people against Christianity in the first place. People don't WORSHIP Bill Wilson, and if they do, they are NOT following the program! No man is to be worshipped. I find it odd that I was raised Catholic, had turned my back on the Church in my youth and found Christianity AGAIN through AA. How the HELL can you attract people who are from other faiths and give them help if it's ONLY about Christ? This is offensive to people of other faiths. I have Jewish friends in AA and find that only focusing on Christianity may turn some away. Sooooooo, do you suggest we only help those who are Christians? Do we force conversion from people seeking help? Ridiculous. AA encourages us to find our OWN spiritual paths. Mine was Christianity, but I'll throw myself under a bus before I will refuse someone help because he or she doesn't accept Jesus Christ as his/her savior. It's not what AA is about!

Andy Kelly said...

Not only am I a recovering alcohic but also a lapsed catholic and lapsed aa member. Simple fact is substance addictions kills millions every year.
This article could mean a death sentence for some.
Aa members are free to choose a God of their understanding. Mine is the God of truth, compassion, healing and justice. What can be so bad about that? I attended aa meetings for three years and I met many decent individuals. I also met plenty of dry drunks too. One thing I can tell you is I never once saw any freaky masonic style initiations and if I had of done I would have been out of there like a shot.
The key for addicts is finding the path of sobriety. Whichever way works, use it.

Andy Kelly said...

Well thought out and a really interesting perspective. Indeed it sure seems the cuurent CULTural zeitgeist is a product of an increasing less secretive & extremely sinister cult & it sure isnt aa to blame in this instance.